Words fail me.
Sep. 17th, 2008 06:41 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
sister_luckThe weather is grey and it's getting colder every day.
There's nothing to really complain about, but I find it difficult to be positive about things. And I'm not alone in that. Some of us at school are still struggling against this negativity, others have succumbed to it and it's moan, moan, moan all day long.
That's why I've been so silent in the past days.
There was nothing to say.
But now I've got something, a phrase that keeps niggling me. I wanted to praise someone for writing great little blogs. He's got the art of writing blogs down pat. That sentence lurked in my head. Not trusting myself, I looked it up in the OALD, my favourite dictonary for a quick language query. Hm, they insist that it's have/know something off pat. That seemed off to me. A quick google confirmed that the down pat version is in use, too.
On a second look, I realize that yes, the OALD knows down pat, too, but they classify it as North American usage.
Odd, I don't think I've ever come across the British version.
Which one seems more natural to you?
There's nothing to really complain about, but I find it difficult to be positive about things. And I'm not alone in that. Some of us at school are still struggling against this negativity, others have succumbed to it and it's moan, moan, moan all day long.
That's why I've been so silent in the past days.
There was nothing to say.
But now I've got something, a phrase that keeps niggling me. I wanted to praise someone for writing great little blogs. He's got the art of writing blogs down pat. That sentence lurked in my head. Not trusting myself, I looked it up in the OALD, my favourite dictonary for a quick language query. Hm, they insist that it's have/know something off pat. That seemed off to me. A quick google confirmed that the down pat version is in use, too.
On a second look, I realize that yes, the OALD knows down pat, too, but they classify it as North American usage.
Odd, I don't think I've ever come across the British version.
Which one seems more natural to you?
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no subject
Date: 2008-09-17 05:46 pm (UTC)Which one seems more natural to you?
None actually, but I am not a role model when it comes to English speaking. BTW thanks for the OALD link !
no subject
Date: 2008-09-17 05:50 pm (UTC)Hm, you're right. I'd better do that then!
no subject
Date: 2008-09-17 06:12 pm (UTC)xxx
no subject
Date: 2008-09-17 06:57 pm (UTC)What about off pat as in He had all the answers off pat?
off and down pat seem to be two slightly different idioms that sometimes take different verbs.
no subject
Date: 2008-09-17 08:40 pm (UTC)*shrug*
Maybe I'm just stupid. Hell, what would I know, being the huge failure I am!
no subject
Date: 2008-09-18 06:01 am (UTC)Hey, not stupid, not a huge failure.
The 'off pat' idiom might be in the dictionary, but what counts for me is how people use it.
no subject
Date: 2008-09-19 06:34 pm (UTC)Just totally messed up right now...everything has gone topsy turvy and I feel crap.
no subject
Date: 2008-09-19 06:55 pm (UTC)*hugs*
It's okay. Remember, I've been there, too.
no subject
Date: 2008-09-17 06:14 pm (UTC)He's learnt his speech
If you learn something by heart you have it "off by heart", so you have it "off pat" - but a skill is more than a simple rote memory feat, so I'd be inclined to use "down pat". for that.
Hope that makes sense.
no subject
Date: 2008-09-17 06:54 pm (UTC)have / know sth off pat (BrE) (NAmE have / know sth down pat) to know sth perfectly so that you can repeat it at any time without having to think about it: He had all the answers off pat.
So, the down pat version is another idiom altogether, though closely related to the first. And it's not in the OALD. Bad dictionary.
no subject
Date: 2008-09-17 07:30 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-09-18 06:14 am (UTC)Hm, what counts for me is how people use it - the OALD mentions 'down pat' but just as the American alternative to 'off pat'. This doesn't seem to reflect usage, but I need a bigger sample of opinions or better yet a proper look at a corpus. Ah, to be a linguist...